Perhaps this parallel with Churchill is also worth considering :--
Churchill was a Tory statesman in a union where there was a fairly stable system of parties, in which the Conservatives & Labour parties dominated. Ukraine's parliamentary structure is much more volatile, in which Zelenskyy's Servant of the People Party dominates as a Burger-Democrat or mainly-supportive-of-capitalism party.
Yet in my reading of the situation, Churchill was able and Zelenskyy is able to maintain a temporary truce between left and right 'for the duration'. That's to say that Zelenskyy is largely trusted by the left to avoid exploiting his wartime executive power to surreptitiously introduce needless restrictions on labour. (While there has been some complaint about proposals by the parliamentary Servant of the People Party, it has not been directed at Zelenskyy himself.)
Zelenskyy also seems to have the tentative support of forces to the 'right' of his party, such as Peter Poroshenko and European Solidarity party.
Those with such gifts seem to somehow magically appear at the moment they are needed. I've been thinking recently about Abraham Lincoln, and how different the world might be today if this single individual hadn't risen to national leadership at just the right time.
I hate to say this, but it may be Zelensky's fate not to survive this war. But his death, should it happen, could in the end be his greatest contribution to Ukraine. In death he would be elevated from national leader to a transcendent national savior, and become a symbol which could unite Ukrainians for centuries to come. I'm thinking here of how the murder of Jesus transformed him from a local preacher who would have probably been soon forgotten, to a global phenomena still deeply influential to this day.
Human being live through the medium of story, and Zelensky is a superb story teller, like all effective national leaders. Whoever is running this universe was smiling on the Ukrainian people the day he was born.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . The United States government is a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Israeli political Action Committee.
Jewish Corruption in Ukraine . . . by Andrew Joyce, Ph.D.
❝. . . the present conflict is a huge distraction from the fact that, for decades, the biggest threat to Ukraine hasn’t been Russia, but financiers and speculators operating with impunity within Ukraine’s borders to exploit ethnic Ukrainians and plunder their resources.❞
Pace Phil but imo our Lord's death was taken as a defeat by his disciples -- they thought that he could not have been Messias since he was killed.
It was only after experiencing him as resurrected that, first, those who experienced him as alive and, second, those who heard from others that he was alive began to re-think the way in which Jesus of Nazareth was messias -- they began to entertain the thought that one who was killed could yet be Messias.
My point was really about the nature of story, any story. Rags to riches story lines are typically compelling. The Jesus story has two loops of rags to riches, making it a very powerful story.
1) He was nobody, who became a prophet. Rags, to riches.
2) Then he was murdered (rags) and came back to life (riches) and then went on to heaven (more riches).
If Jesus hadn't been murdered the second rags to riches part of the story wouldn't have happened, making it a far less compelling story. Nobody would probably remember Jesus today.
I take your point that the outcome of a story can have a great effect on the reception of the antecedents. It seems to be widely accepted, for example, that the execution with dubious legality of people connected with the Easter 1916 rising in Dublin moved Irish opinion to the _support_ of the insurrectionists, whereas previously Irish opinion had been mostly condemnatory of the insurrection.
So, in general, I am in agreement with you. But I add a few remarks on the particular case of Jesus of Nazareth :--
__On Prophets and Christs/Messiahs/Kings__
In Hebrew culture, a prophet was expected to elucidate the truth about God and about how God was at work in the world. This might lead to confrontation with the powers-that-be and even to the killing of the prophet as witness to the truth (i.e. the truth as understood by the prophet & his disciples).
Someone who was anointed king in Israel or Judah was expected to implement a just reign in the name of JHVH, 'the LORD', and the Christ-King's success was a sign of his legitimacy. Very often, a Christ, a Messiah, would be physically anointed by someone who was already accepted as a prophet. (I expect that this year in London we will hear the solemn rendition of Handel's coronation anthem 'Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon king. And all the people rejoiced and said "God save the King"'.)
In so far as Jesus' disciples revered him as a prophet, they would have reverenced his teaching after his execution.
But Jesus was executed not only as 'false prophet' but also as a 'false Christ/Messiah/King' and so when he suffered an ignominious death this was a sign to everyone, including his disciples, that he was at least misguided in allowing himself to be taken as a Christ.
A 1930 book which summarises some of these matters is 'Who Moved the Stone?'
by Albert Henry Ross. More recently N.T. Wright has written scholarly-popular accounts.
Jesus may in fact have been misguided, not that I claim to know. Let us recall how young he was. Thirty year olds have typically not reached the pinnacle of wisdom.
My theory is that Jesus had some experience of transcending the thought generated division between "me" and "everything else". From that experience he proclaimed himself God. Maybe what he forget to say, didn't understand, or was misquoted on, is that everybody and everything else is God too (imho).
The Catholics say that God is ever present everywhere in all times and places.
If that's the case, it seems to follow that everything is God, including Jesus, and you and me too. This is my interpretation, I don't think the Catholics take it this far.
The difference between people may lie in how well they can perceive that unity. Jesus may have perceived that unity very directly, while for most of us it's just a theory, if we think about it at all.
Should you launch a substack, give me a shout, I'd be interested.
I would be happy if you subscribed to my substack 'blog _Martin Curt_. It consists mostly of links to sites about Ukraine & Ukraine's difficulties, but sometimes there is philosophical discussion.
Ukraine is a very important topic, I just subscribed. We've had a big Ukrainian flag flying on the front of our house since the first week of the war. Same on our Facebook page.
In the first glance I hesitate to compare Zelensky with Churchill - until you give it a thorough thought.
To be an inspiring leader plus being able to get a whole nation focused on one single purpose is great leadership - period.
And Zelensky has the knack to put more of the right people in the right positions than not. Especially his military leaders will give material to study for generations to come.
In point of fact I think that Zelensky is a greater leader than Churchill. The UK was never threatened with invasion - even at the time it was by no means clear that Germany had the shipping to affect an over-seas invasion. After the war it became clear it had nowhere near enough and only made half hearted plans. Zelensky chose to stay in Kyiv when a very large number of tanks were driving towards it. Churchill didn't have to work to activate his allies. Hitler obligingly went to war with the USSR declared war on the USA, who won the war for the UK. Zelensky didn't hinder the war effort with crackpot strategic ideas like Churchill did. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming to OK D-Day and wanted to rely on the ineffective French resistance to destroy the French railroads rather than have the American air force do it. No Zelensky is a more effective war leader than Churchill by a long way.
Dear God, i cannot let this post go unchallenged. What absolute rubbish that England was not faced with invasion. It was a real and tangible threat in 1939/40. The statement that Zelensky is a greater leader than Churchill draws such a long bow to be quite laughable. During the period of Sep 1939-1942 it was only England and Churchill against Hitler’s Germany. Compare that to the proxy war of the West against Russia. You revision of history is so typical of the revisionist history trend of this generation. Your post is quite frankly appalling.
Keep your hair on Mr/Ms Zzynsy. I was not saying that Churchill was an ineffective leader or that Putin’s Russia is in the same league as Hitler’s Germany. What I am saying is Zelenksy has shown superior leadership. When he chose to stay in Ukraine Kyiv was under far greater threat than London ever was. In its darkest period, England still had an undefeated air force and navy in its darkest periods of the war and an unbridgeable oceanic barrier. For Churchill to show equal courage he would have needed to be steadfast when the Germans had successfully landed and had large numbers of tanks en route to London. Though the fear of an invasion was present in Britain I doubt any informed commentator (which may not be you) would deny that Germany never had anywhere near the shipping to do so.
I also challenge anyone to deny the Americans and Russians played far greater roles in the defeat of Germany. Hitler brought those enemies on himself with no help from Churchill. Churchill’s contributions to strategic planning were often poorly thought out and only did no damage because the Americans over-ruled him. Your post is frankly histrionic and adolescent.
When Ukraine win this war and Zelensky rightly wins re-election and starts the process of joining Europe I really hope that eventually (no rush on this, I’m thinking 2 or 3 terms) he either does a Washington and steps down or gets defeated in an election by another committed democrat who complains about his education or health policy or something
That will be the true final victory over not just Putin but Putinism, much like Sth Africa needs a non-ANC Party to win Govt to finally complete its transition to democracy so does Ukraine need a normal election win for a non-Zelensky figure (again, no rush, he’s earned a couple of reeelections already) to drive home the point to Putin and his ilk that they not only didn’t win but be never win
Thanks for another fine essay.
Perhaps this parallel with Churchill is also worth considering :--
Churchill was a Tory statesman in a union where there was a fairly stable system of parties, in which the Conservatives & Labour parties dominated. Ukraine's parliamentary structure is much more volatile, in which Zelenskyy's Servant of the People Party dominates as a Burger-Democrat or mainly-supportive-of-capitalism party.
Yet in my reading of the situation, Churchill was able and Zelenskyy is able to maintain a temporary truce between left and right 'for the duration'. That's to say that Zelenskyy is largely trusted by the left to avoid exploiting his wartime executive power to surreptitiously introduce needless restrictions on labour. (While there has been some complaint about proposals by the parliamentary Servant of the People Party, it has not been directed at Zelenskyy himself.)
Zelenskyy also seems to have the tentative support of forces to the 'right' of his party, such as Peter Poroshenko and European Solidarity party.
Happy New Year to all readers.
Fuck you and your Jewish god . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
In the "we're here" part in the new year's speech, he's also quoting himself, cf. https://slovodnya.substack.com/p/were-here
Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
Those with such gifts seem to somehow magically appear at the moment they are needed. I've been thinking recently about Abraham Lincoln, and how different the world might be today if this single individual hadn't risen to national leadership at just the right time.
I hate to say this, but it may be Zelensky's fate not to survive this war. But his death, should it happen, could in the end be his greatest contribution to Ukraine. In death he would be elevated from national leader to a transcendent national savior, and become a symbol which could unite Ukrainians for centuries to come. I'm thinking here of how the murder of Jesus transformed him from a local preacher who would have probably been soon forgotten, to a global phenomena still deeply influential to this day.
Human being live through the medium of story, and Zelensky is a superb story teller, like all effective national leaders. Whoever is running this universe was smiling on the Ukrainian people the day he was born.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . The United States government is a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Israeli political Action Committee.
Jewish Corruption in Ukraine . . . by Andrew Joyce, Ph.D.
❝. . . the present conflict is a huge distraction from the fact that, for decades, the biggest threat to Ukraine hasn’t been Russia, but financiers and speculators operating with impunity within Ukraine’s borders to exploit ethnic Ukrainians and plunder their resources.❞
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2023/02/17/jewish-corruption-in-ukraine/
Pace Phil but imo our Lord's death was taken as a defeat by his disciples -- they thought that he could not have been Messias since he was killed.
It was only after experiencing him as resurrected that, first, those who experienced him as alive and, second, those who heard from others that he was alive began to re-think the way in which Jesus of Nazareth was messias -- they began to entertain the thought that one who was killed could yet be Messias.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
Hi there Martin,
My point was really about the nature of story, any story. Rags to riches story lines are typically compelling. The Jesus story has two loops of rags to riches, making it a very powerful story.
1) He was nobody, who became a prophet. Rags, to riches.
2) Then he was murdered (rags) and came back to life (riches) and then went on to heaven (more riches).
If Jesus hadn't been murdered the second rags to riches part of the story wouldn't have happened, making it a far less compelling story. Nobody would probably remember Jesus today.
Thanks for your swift response, Phil.
I take your point that the outcome of a story can have a great effect on the reception of the antecedents. It seems to be widely accepted, for example, that the execution with dubious legality of people connected with the Easter 1916 rising in Dublin moved Irish opinion to the _support_ of the insurrectionists, whereas previously Irish opinion had been mostly condemnatory of the insurrection.
So, in general, I am in agreement with you. But I add a few remarks on the particular case of Jesus of Nazareth :--
__On Prophets and Christs/Messiahs/Kings__
In Hebrew culture, a prophet was expected to elucidate the truth about God and about how God was at work in the world. This might lead to confrontation with the powers-that-be and even to the killing of the prophet as witness to the truth (i.e. the truth as understood by the prophet & his disciples).
Someone who was anointed king in Israel or Judah was expected to implement a just reign in the name of JHVH, 'the LORD', and the Christ-King's success was a sign of his legitimacy. Very often, a Christ, a Messiah, would be physically anointed by someone who was already accepted as a prophet. (I expect that this year in London we will hear the solemn rendition of Handel's coronation anthem 'Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon king. And all the people rejoiced and said "God save the King"'.)
In so far as Jesus' disciples revered him as a prophet, they would have reverenced his teaching after his execution.
But Jesus was executed not only as 'false prophet' but also as a 'false Christ/Messiah/King' and so when he suffered an ignominious death this was a sign to everyone, including his disciples, that he was at least misguided in allowing himself to be taken as a Christ.
A 1930 book which summarises some of these matters is 'Who Moved the Stone?'
by Albert Henry Ross. More recently N.T. Wright has written scholarly-popular accounts.
Cheers,
Martin.
Jesus may in fact have been misguided, not that I claim to know. Let us recall how young he was. Thirty year olds have typically not reached the pinnacle of wisdom.
My theory is that Jesus had some experience of transcending the thought generated division between "me" and "everything else". From that experience he proclaimed himself God. Maybe what he forget to say, didn't understand, or was misquoted on, is that everybody and everything else is God too (imho).
The Catholics say that God is ever present everywhere in all times and places.
If that's the case, it seems to follow that everything is God, including Jesus, and you and me too. This is my interpretation, I don't think the Catholics take it this far.
The difference between people may lie in how well they can perceive that unity. Jesus may have perceived that unity very directly, while for most of us it's just a theory, if we think about it at all.
Should you launch a substack, give me a shout, I'd be interested.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
I would be happy if you subscribed to my substack 'blog _Martin Curt_. It consists mostly of links to sites about Ukraine & Ukraine's difficulties, but sometimes there is philosophical discussion.
Cheers,
Martin.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
Ukraine is a very important topic, I just subscribed. We've had a big Ukrainian flag flying on the front of our house since the first week of the war. Same on our Facebook page.
In the first glance I hesitate to compare Zelensky with Churchill - until you give it a thorough thought.
To be an inspiring leader plus being able to get a whole nation focused on one single purpose is great leadership - period.
And Zelensky has the knack to put more of the right people in the right positions than not. Especially his military leaders will give material to study for generations to come.
In point of fact I think that Zelensky is a greater leader than Churchill. The UK was never threatened with invasion - even at the time it was by no means clear that Germany had the shipping to affect an over-seas invasion. After the war it became clear it had nowhere near enough and only made half hearted plans. Zelensky chose to stay in Kyiv when a very large number of tanks were driving towards it. Churchill didn't have to work to activate his allies. Hitler obligingly went to war with the USSR declared war on the USA, who won the war for the UK. Zelensky didn't hinder the war effort with crackpot strategic ideas like Churchill did. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming to OK D-Day and wanted to rely on the ineffective French resistance to destroy the French railroads rather than have the American air force do it. No Zelensky is a more effective war leader than Churchill by a long way.
Dear God, i cannot let this post go unchallenged. What absolute rubbish that England was not faced with invasion. It was a real and tangible threat in 1939/40. The statement that Zelensky is a greater leader than Churchill draws such a long bow to be quite laughable. During the period of Sep 1939-1942 it was only England and Churchill against Hitler’s Germany. Compare that to the proxy war of the West against Russia. You revision of history is so typical of the revisionist history trend of this generation. Your post is quite frankly appalling.
Keep your hair on Mr/Ms Zzynsy. I was not saying that Churchill was an ineffective leader or that Putin’s Russia is in the same league as Hitler’s Germany. What I am saying is Zelenksy has shown superior leadership. When he chose to stay in Ukraine Kyiv was under far greater threat than London ever was. In its darkest period, England still had an undefeated air force and navy in its darkest periods of the war and an unbridgeable oceanic barrier. For Churchill to show equal courage he would have needed to be steadfast when the Germans had successfully landed and had large numbers of tanks en route to London. Though the fear of an invasion was present in Britain I doubt any informed commentator (which may not be you) would deny that Germany never had anywhere near the shipping to do so.
I also challenge anyone to deny the Americans and Russians played far greater roles in the defeat of Germany. Hitler brought those enemies on himself with no help from Churchill. Churchill’s contributions to strategic planning were often poorly thought out and only did no damage because the Americans over-ruled him. Your post is frankly histrionic and adolescent.
The United States government is a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Israeli political Action Committee.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
May I suggest a cup of tea and a lie down.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
When Ukraine win this war and Zelensky rightly wins re-election and starts the process of joining Europe I really hope that eventually (no rush on this, I’m thinking 2 or 3 terms) he either does a Washington and steps down or gets defeated in an election by another committed democrat who complains about his education or health policy or something
That will be the true final victory over not just Putin but Putinism, much like Sth Africa needs a non-ANC Party to win Govt to finally complete its transition to democracy so does Ukraine need a normal election win for a non-Zelensky figure (again, no rush, he’s earned a couple of reeelections already) to drive home the point to Putin and his ilk that they not only didn’t win but be never win
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH GOD . . . Volodymyr Zelensky is an Israeli operative, the Ukrainian parliament is full of Jewish apparatchiks.
Ukraine’s Azov Regiment Visits Israel: ‘Mariupol is our Masada’ . . .
https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/12/ukraines-azov-regiment-visits-israel-mariupol-is-our-masada/
Word.
But I can't understand what is to be gained from trolling the Russians--or indeed anybody else.
Interesting.